Upcoming LMDE “2” to be named “Betsy”
by clem 85

As previously announced, LMDE is switching to Debian Stable and a frozen cycle similar to Linux Mint.

The upcoming release of LMDE will be version 2, codename “betsy” and it will use a Debian “jessie” package base.

The team is currently adapting to the new LMDE, setting up its repositories and porting various packages onto it.

The target for a stable release is estimated for this November, along with an official upgrade path from UP8 to Betsy.

Beta-testing information and details will be communicated as soon as the distribution is functional. This could happen any time between now and November.

 

85 thoughts on “Upcoming LMDE “2” to be named “Betsy”

  1. Reply Monsta Aug 28,2014 13:15

    So… girl codenames again? This time without “ends with ‘a'” rule? :)

  2. Reply Ty Aug 28,2014 13:37

    Frozen cycle for LMDE too?
    Interesting, I’m curious to see how well this works.
    As far as I can tell, it’s been working well with 17 and Ubuntu’s LTE base.
    Should LMDE become a bit more refined (maybe even this release) – I continue to see a very useful future for it.

  3. Reply Frank Aug 28,2014 15:16

    I’ve been loving LMDE, this is great news.
    We can’t wait for the next release!

  4. Reply KDB Aug 28,2014 15:48

    Hi Clem,

    Can we expect to see Cinnamon 2.2 and MATE 1.8 before November or should we wait for Betsy to be released?

    We are missing key features of Cinnamon in LMDE now :)

    KDB

    • Reply clem Aug 28,2014 17:28

      Hi KDB, yes and no. You won’t need to wait until November to use Betsy, you’ll need to wait until November to see it released (with ISOs) as stable. UP8 isn’t moving anymore and neither is packages.linuxmint.com/debian but there’s a lot of work going into packages.linuxmint.com/betsy right now. For instance today we started putting Cinnamon 2.2 into it.

  5. Reply Giblets Aug 28,2014 18:04

    Excellent news! Debian stable with Cinnamon and up to date Firefox & Thunderbird, just what I wanted :-)

    I really like Mint 17, but having a stable base and the option to cherry pick packages from Debian Testing/Unstable should be ideal for my development work.

    Can we expect to see kernel and driver (graphics) updates between releases?

    • Reply clem Aug 29,2014 02:06

      We won’t be focusing on kernel/drivers too much, I mean you’ll have access to what’s available for Jessie. Our vision is to keep things stable in the system base and to increment on top at the desktop/apps level.

      • Reply Giblets Sep 1,2014 17:02

        Thanks for clarifying that. It’ll be interesting to find out how badly I mess things up with packages from testing!

  6. Reply Crewp Aug 28,2014 20:00

    Hi Clem, and Dev. Team, this is good news, and I hope the beginning of a great future for LMDE. Keep up the good work!

  7. Reply fortran Aug 29,2014 15:16

    It’s a good idea. I think It comes with only Cinnamon and Mate. Conveniences. Greetings.

  8. Reply Jason Hsu Aug 29,2014 16:44

    I’m pleased to see that LMDE is moving from Debian Testing to Debian Stable.

    Clem, I think you should offer a version of LMDE with LXDE in addition to the MATE and Cinnamon versions. In my opinion, the main advantage of LMDE over Ubuntu-based Mint is bypassing that heavy Ubuntu overhead. LXDE is substantially lighter than MATE and Cinnamon, and the difference will be significant without that heavy Ubuntu overhead.

    People on the forums have asked about using Linux Mint on computers that are 10+ years old. LMDE with LXDE would be a great answer.

    If offering LMDE with pre-installed LXDE requires cutting back on other endeavors, you can discontinue the KDE and Xfce versions of Linux Mint. KDE and Xfce were never the “main” DEs of Linux Mint. Given that you’re in charge of MATE and Cinnamon, you know that neither project will pull a GNOME 3 or Unity.

  9. Reply Linhurst Aug 30,2014 12:20

    Hi Jason Hsu

    I feel very positive about the moves to Ubuntu LTS and Debian stable. This allows Mint developers to focus more on what makes Mint different. I enjoy using LXDE on older computers however personally feel this would be a distraction for Mint.

    LXDE did not migrate from gtk+ 2 to gtk+ 3, but took a different approach to co-operate with Razor-qt. LXDE-Qt does not feel to align well with a stable base strategy for Mint. There may be an opportunity for others if there is sufficient interest (similar to SolydXK with Xfce/KDE or Bodhi Linux with E17/E19)? Best to focus rather than spread limited resources too thin. Just my thoughts.

  10. Reply Terion Aug 30,2014 18:31

    Will LMDE retain the ability to upgrade to a new release without a reinstall?
    I installed LMDE two weeks ago precisely because of its rolling release cycle.

    • Reply clem Aug 30,2014 19:23

      But any Linux system can do that, especially those based on Debian/APT. So in a way, yes you’ll be able to upgrade from on release to the next, but no it won’t be rolling or semi-rolling anymore. It should be rolling to the extent that there won’t be opt-in on the backports, so for two years you’ll be upgraded to the newer content pack / innovations / point release, but after two years or so we’ll eventually move towards LMDE 3, and then 4 etc..

      • Reply Sam Sep 9,2014 11:13

        clem, if I’m not wrong then Debian is able to have in-place upgrade between releases. So upgrading to LMDE 3, 4… doesn’t mean reinstall, right?

        Edit by Clem: From a technical point of view, yes. This is true to Mint and Ubuntu also. In practice it’s not always smooth, that’s why we recommend a fresh install. What’s important to consider though is that we changed our cycle from 6 months to 2 years. In other words, you’ll be on the same base for 2 years and we’ll only update the content on top, which means it will be trivial and safe for you to keep things fresh without taking much risks. In LMDE this is with Betsy, and in Mint that’s with the 17.x series.

  11. Reply Freñçh Aug 31,2014 12:47

    As previously announced, LMDE is switching to Debian Stable and a frozen cycle similar to Linux Mint

    Think this’s a step forwards stability and reliability are important for all end-users.

    • Reply Nessie Oct 5,2014 21:19

      As previously announced, LMDE is switching to Debian Stable and a frozen cycle similar to Linux Mint

      Think this’s a step forwards stability and reliability are important for all end-users.

      For myself at least (I can’t speak for others but I’d be shocked if I were the only one), this means I’m leaving Mint. I’m currently dual-booting LM17 and LMDE, with an eye towards moving to LMDE full-time, tracking Testing, entirely because of the rolling release style. Finding this out…I’m probably going to end up moving to straight-up Debian Testing if not Sid. The stability at all costs philosophy conflicts near-daily with my needs from my system, and I’m already pulling things from Sid because LMDE’s repos are ancient, and occasionally paying the price so I’m not afraid of that anymore. It’s been a fun ride, and best of luck with your punctuated equilibrium.

      an end user

      • Reply Jean-Philippe Nov 4,2014 16:32

        Quite same feeling for me … I switched 2 years ago from the dying Mandriva to LMDE for the precise reason it was a (semi-)rolling release distro. And I nearly never fell into any stability issue !
        Well, for me it’ll probably be some Arch derivative …
        Quite disappointed by this news …
        Another end user.

        • Reply MjdTjm Jan 8,2015 15:34

          Exactly, I have the same situation!
          I’m wondered why the developers decided to stop one of the best ROLLING RELEASE distros that was based on the great Debian!

          Yet another end user.

  12. Reply drum Aug 31,2014 15:10

    great news, can’t wait to see this release

  13. Reply DellDor Aug 31,2014 18:44

    This is kind of sad news for me: I love the semi-rolling released way of LMDE, enabling me to have a mix of some stability, real cut-edge apps versions and the opportunity of forgive reinstall all system every X months. I found it when a was looking for a Debian based system (from where comes Canaima OS) with updated apps but with a little piece of what I loved of Arch Linux: don’t need to reinstall the whole system in each version upgrade.

    I used to install LMDE to relatives and friends that wants the security of GNU but with a “familiar” desktop (Mate looks like… well, you know), and let them said good bye to the main OS in our country, but without they calling me every 6 months saying “Ey! there is a message telling me that my software is old. What I can do?”

    I don’t want use Ubuntu or regular Mint anymore because I never get all the system properly working by making recommended upgrade steps between versions. I can’t install Arch or Manjaro because it’s really hard and time consuming to try have updated all my relatives and friends computers and laptops, because hardware and drivers differences and peculiarities. In LMDE with Upgrade Manager, they do that by themselves.

    Now I’ll search another rolling or semi-rolling Debian. I’ll give a chance to SolydXK or Aptosid… or maybe another from http://distrowatch.com/search.php?basedon=Debian+%28Unstable%29 or http://distrowatch.com/search.php?basedon=Debian+%28Testing%29

    LMDE semi-rolling will died! Long live to LMDE semi-rolling!

    Miguel DellDor

    (Excuse my for English… I’m just learning it)

    • Reply esplinter Aug 31,2014 20:34

      Hi DellDor,

      I think that the latest mint17-mate is right what you need for your friends/relatives if you are looking for a stable system which doesn’t require full OS upgrades every 6 months but still receive minor updates to get latest applications.

      I don’t know if you are aware that latest mint17 and future mint releases will stay with the ubuntu14.04 as base (which is LTS and has support for 5 year) so a upgrade every 6 months is no longer needed, but still you get updates for most important applications and also the mate or cinnamon desktop.

      anyway, just a suggestion :)

      saludos

  14. Reply nullzero Aug 31,2014 19:52

    how upgradable will it be from one version to the next? Upgrading Ubuntu from one version to the next is often not recommended. But I managed switching from one Debian to the next usually without problems.

    I have also bee looking for the perfect pre-installed user friendly Debian option, for which LMDE or SolydXK were the most likely candidates. But now that both projects are being redesigned, focusing on a more stable base (which seems at first glance) I’m still wandering which one to pick.

  15. Reply Nathyel Sep 2,2014 13:04

    Hi Clem,

    What about encryption option for the installer, like in the real debian installer?
    Many of us would like to get this feature for LMDE, please. ;)
    I hope it will be planned one day.

    Thank

    • Reply clem Sep 3,2014 07:28

      We’ll see. Work started on live-installer actually, kernc is leading the effort on that. We’ve got better language selection, support for autologin, support for installation on multiple hard drives..etc.. I’ll blog about this later as it’s not fully ready yet. I’m also testing this on the very first Betsy ISO (not public, very broken/alpha at this stage) and it ships Cinnamon 2.2 :)

  16. Reply Krypt-tokh Sep 2,2014 22:15

    lol, the rolling release structure should be kept intact, if killed, then its not lmde, mot. just another ubuntu based linux using the debian name

    • Reply KDB Sep 3,2014 08:08

      LMDE cannot be Ubuntu based… It’s based on Debian directly. Rolling or not Rolling, it will not be an “another Ubuntu based linux”. Obviously you missed something here…

  17. Reply balduin Sep 3,2014 22:40

    I think switching to Debian stable is not the best idea and switching from the semi rolling release concept to version based concept is even more worse.
    I have been switching to LMDE because of it’s semi rolling release concept and the nice Cinnamon Desktop.
    LMDE is a Desktop Operating system for daily use, not a server distribution like Debian. I prefer to get new software and new features if they are available. I don’t want Firefox 24.0.4 ESR, instead i want the new Firefox 32 if it is available. I don’t care if Firefox has a small bug which get fixed in Firefox 32.01 three days later. The semi rolling release concept provide new software if they are available. Their is another create opportunity in the semi rolling release concept, it is possible to make continuous improvements on the operating system, without building every time a “new distribution”. Changing small pieces of software is enough and from time to time push new cinnamon version into LMDE, so you have a user base which could gave you some feedback about the cinnamon development.
    LMDE is a niche for more professional users not for newbies. And their is another great problem with debian stable, it is not recommended to install debian stable on new hardware, because in most cases it won’t work.
    My suggestion is let LMDE on the semi rolling release concept, but three months before you release a new LMDE update make a beta release. Three months the community can gave their feedback for the new update, you can make some improvments release the update and start the process again. And every two years you release a new version of Linux Mint based on Ubuntu LTS. But don’t think I am absolutely against the version based concept, it was a brilliant idea to switch from Ubuntu to Ubuntu LTS for Linux Mint. But I don’t like the idea switching from debian testing to debian stable in LMDE. I think the best way is, let both ideas coexist.

    • Reply IL Sep 5,2014 18:51

      To me it looks like the people of LMDE want to get very stable kernel. and on top of it “testing” Desktop from backports. It sounds nice – good idea.
      As for what you say – old kernel on new hardware… I dont’ know. Maybe Clem would like to make a comment on that…

      The “semirolling” on LMDE were more like “norolling” at all – the update-packs
      came out every six months anyway.

      Final, I think it is too early to know what we going to get here – there is great luck of information and we have to wait and see…

  18. Reply MadWatch Sep 4,2014 07:17

    I’m confused. If LMDE is no longer rolling then how is it going to be different from regular Debian ?

  19. Reply Anto Sep 6,2014 21:40

    I am actually quite sad to see the announcement that LMDE will switch to Debian Stable distribution.

    I have been using pure Debian on my notebook and other PCs for over 12 years. I don’t have a lot of complains about Debian, except that I sometime have some issues due to the re-branded applications. I really like using Debian Testing distribution, as I can do regular update to stay as close as possible with the main stream versions (with less glitches).

    When I saw LMDE, I was quite keen to try it. And I am just starting to like LMDE after about a month of perfecting my notebook with it. I was hoping that I will be able to have the same as what I have with Debian plus non-rebranded applications.

    After Debian Jessie will be released next year, i.e. move to stable distribution, I am afraid that later on I will have quite old version of applications in LMDE as the update on the Debian Stable distribution is known to be very slow.

  20. Reply peter Sep 9,2014 13:30

    Thanks Clem.
    being a common end user I defer to your wisdom.

    I need Stable. That is why I use LMDE, and it is why I install it on machines for friends and family.

    In many distros the “latest releases” that were fed to us in updates have caused problems. I would rather wait a bit to get new features in Firefox and Thunderbird.
    Yes, we do wait a few days to get the very latest, but in that way we miss the buggy versions and get the Stable versions of the apps.

    If “modern” hardware is an issue the kernels, repositories, and settings can be changed by the user.
    Once the system is installed and everything is working as intended we can just go back to using our computers and the OS is not the focus of our lives.

    I like to tinker, and I break things. But I don’t want to troubleshoot because some silly “update” was not fully vetted.

    “set it and forget it”

    • Reply Anto Sep 10,2014 02:38

      Even in the current LMDE, we will not get the update in “a few days”. That is why they called it “semi rolling” release. Or even more, the update on the Debian Unstable distribution does not always happen in “a few days”, and the packages on it are not always the latest ones comparing to the upstream versions.

      Unless there are critical bugs in Debian Stable distribution (which is very very rare), the update usually happens in a few months time. So I am really wondering how fast that update will be reflected in next release of LMDE which is based on that in the up coming months.

      So using the Debian Testing distribution as the base on LMDE is a trade off of having a PC which can be updated regularly without the need of major upgrade and having the versions of applications that are not by far behind the upstream. Without this, LMDE will just be the same as the Ubuntu based Mint. I think it would be better to allocate the time and effort in developing LMDE to the development of Ubuntu based Mint, as that will just be double of development time and efforts.

  21. Reply Carlos Sep 9,2014 19:34

    I started using Linux thanks to the course the Linux Foundation offers at edX, I tried to make the switch a couple of times in the past but now I have a good motivation (numerical programming).

    While I was searching for a distro, I discovered MINT and loved it due mostly to the features that are going out (rolling release, updated software, cinnamon). Not even a month have passed and I already have a motivation to switch distro? I’m sorry but this is not good management at all.

  22. Reply Billy Sep 10,2014 03:03

    I really really wish LMDE will keep itself semi-rolling. Debian Testing is already quite stable. I like LMDE placing itself between Debian Testing and Debian “Stable”. But going all-“stable”? This will make whenever I want to try new software very troublesome, all the outdated library etc. I chose LMDE rather than the standard Mint right because it’s semi-rolling. Don’t take that away please :(

  23. Reply daspicer Sep 14,2014 12:31

    I’ve been using both LMDE and SolydXK for a while now. Between the 2 distros they have Cinnamon, Mate, XFCE, and KDE rapped up. Sadly, but not unexpectedly, SolydXK is following the same path as LMDE.

  24. Reply debiandoeslinux Sep 14,2014 17:20

    I’ll adopt and wait and see approach. I’ve been using LMDE since its beginning, (Debian for far longer), and have been more that happy with it on both my laptop and as the primary OS on a workstation. I don’t at all mind that things are wonky from time to time (they so rarely are). But being based on Debian testing and not requiring a reinstall every X months are the reasons why I chose LMDE over the Ubuntu-based Mint. And the reason I chose LMDE over pure Debian is Mint’s approach to the desktop and plugins, etc. I still use pure Debian as well to keep me from getting complacent ;P
    I also use CentOS, Arch and openSUSE. I use them more to stay familiar with their package management approaches, but if simply being stable is the goal, openSUSE is very nice. Also, for those who don’t know, you can point openSUSE to the Tumbleweed repository and get a truly rolling release, if that is what you like. I also have MATE on openSUSE which works well for me.
    I suppose what I don’t get is why LMDE needs to be stable. I could not say if it’s more or less expensive to keep it pseudo-rolling with testing. The cynic in me whispers that it is easier to attract new and neophyte users with ‘stable’ than ‘testing’.
    It could also be that LMDE takes more of limited resources than “Betsy” will, and that is a decision I truly understand.
    As I said, I’ll adopt a wait and see approach. Moving to stable doesn’t as yet mean that LMDE is being merged into the other Mint offerings, or I hope it doesn’t. I am most frustrated with the idea of having to now plan a re-installation in the future. Is it the biggest problem in the world? Nope. If I don’t care for the changes I have other options. I’d really be interested to know if the current approach is more resource intensive than a stable release, and also to know how many LMDE users stick with ‘Betsy’ and how many move on.

  25. Reply dancingdog777 Sep 14,2014 23:00

    Can I use this to make a request, on the forums many times in the Newbies section and others, when some messes up an installation we ask that OP if they checked the md3 sum. They obviously say no. Not many editions ago there was always a preinstalled md5 checker installed in in either system or settings so it was dead easy for a newb to do without the need to venture into the complex realms of terminal (let’s be honest, I’ve used Mint since Mint 7 and I still don’t know how to do it!).

  26. Reply Szulu Sep 16,2014 07:34

    So what about current realise of LMDE 201403 it points to Debian testing so it will stay semi-rolling if I wont reinstall. What would be a point to reinstall this realise ? To get Cinamonn 2.2 or Mate 1.8 ? It doesnt make sense to reinstall it tho ? And Mint has no rolling or semi-rolling realise in its pack ;(

  27. Reply Muntasim Ul Haque Sep 30,2014 07:17

    Hi Clem,
    Don’t get me wrong. I just cannot convince myself, why should I use LMDE which would be featuring Debian stable instead of “Debian stable”? Cinnamon has been already available in Debian testing and might make it to the Jessie, when it’s released. What difference could we expect from the LMDE comparing Debian stable?

    • Reply KDB Oct 1,2014 08:42

      Easier install, all the codec, mint tool and flavor.
      And for 2 years you will have the new Cinnamon as normal updates…
      This is only a few reasons… :)

    • Reply mtwebster Oct 1,2014 13:47

      I always looked at it as, if I choose debian, I’ll spend quite a bit of time tailoring it to how I’d like. If I go with LMDE, I get a nice, complete, turn-key experience – everything from default installed programs to themes, icon sets, configuration tools – what I would expect from a static distro, but with the added benefits that a rolling distro gives me.

      • Reply Muntasim Ul Haque Oct 3,2014 12:50

        Would it still be a rolling release distro when the base is changed to Debian stable?

  28. Reply Jeremy Boden Oct 4,2014 21:45

    Why dump the rolling distro idea – even if it’s only once every 2 years?

    I’m using a desktop with rather a lot of customisation – wiping my configuration and reloading it takes a couple of days & is incredibly error prone.

    I might as well load native Debian – it looks similar enough. The only problem is understanding their terminology with regard to a rolling update!

  29. Reply alex Oct 5,2014 09:11

    so it will be nothing else that the Ubuntu-equivalent based on Stable instead of Unstable and with the Mint plug-ins.

    quite shallow… installing this you loose the stability guarantees made by Debian Stable, still you don’t get the newest software as promised by Testing and, even, in a release-based model, by Ubuntu.

    is the wrong direction to cut ties with Ubuntu. there is already a Debian Stable, I fail too see who’ll gonna want a Debian Stable with its stability removed.

    • Reply Monsta Oct 5,2014 18:00

      > installing this you loose the stability guarantees made by Debian Stable
      You don’t have a proof for that.

  30. Reply OnSlow Oct 6,2014 10:46

    Just looking at the new codename for the next release – Rebecca , seems a_lot more perspicuous that the Utopic Beta 2 realeases I’ve seen lately :)

  31. Reply Rik Oct 29,2014 11:58

    The worst choice ever!

    Mint LMDE was a killer distro without any similar competitor BEFORE this choice. It was stable but fresh, and was a semi-rolling avoiding periodic reinstall and the problems or full rolling.

    Adn what we’ve got here now?!

    No rolling at all
    (so we have to reinstall probably in less time than an LTS). The semi-rolling was exactly the advantage of the LMDE, the main reason to choose it

    +

    the stable branch: packages are light years back in the future.

    In other word it’s becoming a nonsense: Why should I install it now? I’m going with Debian or CentOS with its 10 years support.

    On the contrary, before this decision, it was a really killer distro with no competitors.

    • Reply Pjotr Oct 30,2014 14:34

      @Rik: how much do you expect from a small team of developers? They need some sleep too, once in a while…

      Personally, I think it’s good to focus the limited amount of time and effort of the dev team, on the main edition.

      Finally, I think the tone of your message is inappropriate. You don’t pay the bills of the devs, you’re just a receiver of the gifts they make to us all. So please mitigate your tone. A lot.

      • Reply clem Oct 30,2014 19:42

        Feedback is always appreciated, especially when it challenges our ideas. We also get a lot of funds and we’ve a lot of resources. With that said, LMDE will be easier to maintain than it is, but we’ll also achieve much better results with it. What’s we’re losing here is running bleeding edge software (and let’s face it that’s never been a priority for us and we’ve never been 1st in class with it anyway, quite the opposite in fact, we’re more into stability and integration).

  32. Reply Rik Oct 30,2014 14:15

    The comment of Clem doesn’t seem to help me much… or I miss something?
    The main advantage of the semi-rolling is gone, isn’t it?

    Without the semi-rolling release, Mint smooth the way to other distros such as Arch, PCLinuxOs, OpenSuse (already fifth on Distrowatch), etc.
    It’s a pity.

    PS: OpenSuse on the contrary of Mint LMDE is now going to become a rolling distro with the project Tumbleweed https://news.opensuse.org/2014/10/24/tumbleweed-factory-rolling-releases-to-merge/

    • Reply clem Oct 30,2014 19:39

      But wait, the goal is to do things better and better, not to diversify, compete and get as many users as we possibly can. LMDE doesn’t do things as well as Mint 17, in many respects, and one of the big reasons is that we can’t tackle the base as much if it’s constantly moving.

  33. Reply manit40 Oct 30,2014 18:01

    so when is the Upcoming LMDE 2 Betsy nov no betas yet thanks

  34. Reply Clarification, please Nov 6,2014 06:12

    I’m a bit confused about the “stability” of Betsy. Clem says it is based on stable Jessie, but isn’t Jessie the testing branch of Debian? So what does “stable Jessie” mean?

    And another question: when do you think the Betsy ISO will be available? Are there pre-releases available, and if so, can you provide a link?

    • Reply clem Nov 6,2014 11:16

      Hi,

      “Testing” is rolling, “Stable” is a frozen snapshot of it with maintenance updates. “Jessie” is a symbolic link, right now it points to Testing, soon it will point to Stable. What we’re doing is building on top of Jessie, i.e. on something that is Testing, that is getting frozen right now and that will be stable eventually.

      We’ve no ISOs yet but we will provide access before it’s all ready.

  35. Reply Sergio Durán Nov 9,2014 01:09

    Hello CLem there will be a form to use Debian sid as base on LMDE 2?

    • Reply clem Nov 9,2014 01:32

      Hi Sergio. Well it will be possible technically, it’s a Debian base of course, but it won’t be supported. I can tell you already, switching the base to Sid, or even Testing will break things for you, perhaps not the base itself (although that’s not guaranteed) but certainly Cinnamon, probably GTK3 support in mint-x, MDM and so on. In Linux Mint we reach a really high level of integration, one that isn’t seen in any other OS (with the exception of Mac OS.. they control the hardware), we want to do the same in LMDE and the condition for this is a stable base, one that is worth working on (i.e. which lasts a couple of years) and which doesn’t embrace bleeding edge upgrades but favors incremental stable updates instead. As such Debian Stable is a really good candidate. On our side, the challenge then is to bring you backports. Rather than you trying to upgrade the base, we want to know what you miss and do our best to bring you up to date software on top of that stable base.

      • Reply peter Nov 9,2014 14:36

        Thanks for that Clem. That paragraph is by far the Best explanation that I have seen of what we can expect.
        Question: what is the best place and method to report problems and ask for features and software?
        Here?
        Mint Forums?
        thanks, Peter

      • Reply metrancya Nov 11,2014 16:00

        I agree with Peter, your answer, Clem, was the best I read so far! Coders usually are not very good in explaining, why something happens, but this explanation was absolutely top-on-the-spot!

        But that results in another question: Clem, if you are using Debian Stable, do you also include Point releases (like Debian Jessie 8.1, 8.2, etc. in LMDE Betsy 2.0 ? To end up with LMDE Jessie 2.1, 2.2 etc.? In that case, we would see some kind of a quasi-semi-rolling LMDE distribution, even if it is considered to be non-rolling anymore?

  36. Reply MrAli Nov 10,2014 10:30

    Maybe it would be better to give a Boy name to LMDE versions instead of Girl names. just a suggestion.
    thanks.

  37. Reply fred Nov 11,2014 08:49

    Hi Clem.

    Will there be a an option for full disk encryption at the install of LMDE?

    Thanks for all!!!

  38. Reply ShadowK98 Nov 13,2014 16:53

    I’ve chosen LMDE because i want a stable system but with cutting-edge software, I don’t want a debian stable system with old, old, and old software, pheraps a debian stable base+latest software, in this case, it will be a fantastic release, but if it’s a pure debian stable, sorry but i will change distro.

  39. Reply jomaed Nov 14,2014 02:16

    Hi Clem,

    Just one question,

    Why the switching to Debian Stable, instead of keeping in Testing? Many of us are in LMDE because of the (semi-)rolling realese flavor. Do LMDE keep the latest software/kernel versions? T

  40. Reply BristolBill Nov 19,2014 20:31

    Hi,
    One of the drivers of Linux development should be to provide a comfortable alternative for ex Windows users. A stable distro like LMDE is a good place to be, but I do think there should be access to the latest stable productivity software in which users can switch to as seamlessly as possible. Keeping users waiting for the latest compatible software (e.g. LibreOffice) can make it difficult to win ex-Windows users to the cause.

    Thanks to the team for all you do for us.

  41. Reply FM33 Dec 26,2014 23:26

    Hello,

    Maybe it’s a stupid idea, but is there an easy way to be able to install a few software packages that matters to the user (and the dependencies that are not in stable base) from testing/sid repository in /opt/something ?

    Maybe it’s a better compromise between all-in-one packages (big and with libraries never updated), rolling release (not always stable) and compiling (hard for non-expert, and horrible when you need to compile the dependencies of dependencies of dependencies…) ?

    I’m not expert – Is it realistic or fantasy ?

  42. Reply Fran Jan 5,2015 20:16

    The best operating system in the world (the universal operating system) with the best desktop Linux (Cinnamon). Historical fact. Much encouragement, Clem.

  43. Reply Samuel Jan 9,2015 11:52

    Debian stable is one of the best operating systems I know. Linux Mint is the best desktop environment that exists today. Debian stable mix with Mint can lead to better Linux desktop operating system, it is good news.

  44. Reply Miguelito Jan 22,2015 17:44

    OK so now that I have Windows 8.1 exactly where I want it (ready for that reinstall coming up real soon, just as I have it tweaked), and I’ve found a really cool rolling release of Linux that’s pretty and self updating forever, to never force that reinstall again…

    Where should I look next? Recommendations? I know it’ll be a PITA to reinstall Windoze on my 10 machines (ironically they all work with 8.1, can’t say I’ve found a Linux distro yet that will).

    All I want is to NOT have to start over with configurations on an ever growing number of boxes, find a flavor runs well on limited and obscene resources, and that can happily live next to that so far ever mandatory Windows installation with a secure but shared place to stick important stuff.

    I’m not trying to knock LMDE here, it’s a serious question. Perhaps the answer is really in the way e.g. Chrome and Firefox are approaching ‘settings’ and add-ons (programs), all stored in the cloud, with gradual and incremental releases (think of the boiling frog analogy here, eventually you find yourself in a browser that takes a couple of gigs of RAM to run, some of mine do)…

    Is ChromeOS or Firefox as an OS what I’m looking for? I have no experience there.

    The rolling release thing was a deal maker for me conceptually. Set it and forget it. Next time you install a new OS is when you buy a new box. You slip in the disk from the last time, and even if it’s 3 years out of date it just updates itself.

    That is the kind of thing that could drive mass adoption. The whole splintered world for ‘what flavor’ ‘what kernel’ ‘what desktop’ ”what version’ oh you don’t have libXYZ installed??? makes no bloody sense to the average ‘computer’ user. When I want to download the latest version of X, I get… MacOS, Windows (32 AND 64 if they’ve done it right in one package), and Linux flavor 1, 2, 3, 4…. and the source code if you don’t like 1 through n. Too complicated for people.

    • Reply tlhonmey Jan 28,2015 00:45

      If you’re looking for a distro to run on oddball hardware, try Gentoo. As a source-based distro, it’s pretty darn flexible and what I end up using on some machines that have non-standard instruction sets. The downside is that installing software takes longer since it has to compile things. Of course, the upside to that is that, depending on what processor you have, setting the compiler to optimize for your particular processor can make an enormous difference (I’ve seen 20-30% speed improvements with some processors for heavy workloads.)

      Also, since it’s source-based, it’s much harder to get its dependencies into a “snarl of doom.” It does occasionally need a little sorting out, but I’ve got machines that have been going for 5+ years without a full reinstall, and only an occasional reboot for kernel upgrades.

      Essentially, it can rebuild itself in place and not need a separate reinstall phase if things are out of date. You pay for this by having to wait for things to compile when you do updates or install new software (but if you have multiple ones they *can* share the load, so it’s not actually that bad.)

  45. Reply tlhonmey Jan 28,2015 01:30

    Sadly, this means I’ll probably have to find another distro. The nice thing about LMDE was that it tracked Testing closely enough to have all the latest hardware drivers and software updates, but filtered it enough to eliminate the “update of death” problems that slip into testing now and again. If you base it on a snapshot of Stable, then the only thing you’re really offering is a list of commonly-used software to have pre-installed. And maybe some nicer themes. And I will miss the menu. But that’s all just window dressing and I’m pretty sure I can find equivalents elsewhere. No, it’s the “up-to-date, but still spot-checked” bit that was keeping me around.

  46. Reply Flavius Jan 30,2015 16:36

    Debian Stable with Firefox and Thunderbird updated daily is the best and Linux Mint is the best linux distro desktop . I think it’s a good change.
    I like debian stable and I like Linux Mint.

  47. Reply Hunkah Feb 17,2015 06:36

    Clem, I have been a long-time user of Linux, and have preferred using Fedora since it became Fedora. I now use Fedora/Cinnamon and every time I convert someone over to Linux from Windows, I install Fedora on their system. Your goals and vision and direction is constantly making me question using Fedora. If somehow you ended up basing your distro on CentOS, or Fedora, I would switch to yours in a second. But even then, I am considering installing LMDE 2 on every future computer that I install for a friend. I love Fedora, but their love affair with Gnome divides my loyalty to them. I can’t wait to see what your plans are for the future. Keep up the great work my friend.

  48. Reply Jake D. Parsons Sep 3,2015 01:01

    I do not understand the tripidation of some users of a switch to stable from testing for LMDE. Open your sources list and switch from stable to testing. Done. I do not touch Ubuntu, have not liked it since day one. I remember as a Debian and Gentoo user at the time when Ubuntu hit the Linux Distro Fashion Show. Have never liked it.

    Too me there is three ways to do things in the Linux world. Debian, Gentoo, Slackware in no particular order. Except the systemd way, hopefully this fades away and init systems go back to OpenRC. I can work with it though.

    Tired of distro hopping as a main desktop. Thank You Mint for the hard work providing a good sane desktop layer and wising up and providing a Debian base with a Ubuntu base. Thank You for the best MATE implementation out there. Keep up the good work and may your coffee cup be always full.

    • Reply peter Sep 3,2015 14:44

      I agree Jake D. Parsons. LMDE Mate is a great home base.

      Mate: as far as that goes, the little touches are great, however “we get no respect”. Cinnamon is the flagship, and for some reason Clem and his team seem to think we want Mate to have the same look and feel. For me nothing could be farther from the truth.

      @Clem: my requests are simple, just change some defaults for initial install…
      1. make default setup traditional! as in upper and lower panels, an No Mint Menu! (use the traditional 3 pulldowns)
      2. Window Preferences, make the default placement “enable side by side tiling” Un-Checked. It really screws up making windows auto expand. (some of us still multi-task)
      3. hide those darn desktop icons, all of them.
      4. put the trash bin back down in the corner where it belongs.

      granted, these changes are quick and simple after install… but “quick and simple” only for some. I have a friend that continually hops to other distros to regain the “traditional” layout. she returns to LMDE Mate for other features, but agonizes about the difficulty working with the “cinnamon style” setups.

      • Reply mtwebster Sep 4,2015 13:00

        I think you have it backwards… the look and feel you see in Mint predates Cinnamon – it’s the layout that was used with Gnome 2, and it was kept in Mate and when Cinnamon was created, to maintain consistency and comfort to users, regardless of what underlying desktop they ended up preferring. Mate gets plenty of ‘respect’ – but you have to understand it’s not directly maintained by Mint – they are a separate and independent development team. Its initial configuration gets tweaked a bit for Mint, but that’s about all.

        We’re never going to make the perfect desktop for everyone (you can’t please all the people all the time, etc…) but we can strive for what we feel works best for the majority, and attempt to make it simple and fairly effortless to customize things to individual tastes. That’s all we’re doing here.

        • Reply peter Sep 4,2015 15:47

          @mtwebster to be super clear I am not complaining.
          However I beg to differ. I do know the Mint and Mate histories. I have been a regular Mint user since Mate was adopted by Mint…
          Install any no Mint OS with Mate and you will have the traditional Gnome2 layout and menu as I described in 1 and 2 above. (or try another OS and install Mate from their website, same thing)
          That said, nobody else adds the elegance to Mate that Mint does: Desktop Settings lets me do #3, I have “open as Admin” option in Caja, etc. There are Many fine points that Mint adds to Mate.
          Don’t get me wrong, I am a dedicated Mint fanboi :-) (I have been both a Donor and Sponsor for several years)
          peter

          • Reply mtwebster Sep 4,2015 19:15

            I meant, if I look at, say, a screenshot of Mint 11, it looks just like the default Mate or Cinnamon desktop does currently *in Mint only* – you’re right, you install Mate somewhere else, and you get the traditional Gnome 2 menu, etc…

            No worries – I wasn’t trying to start an Internet Argument :) From my perspective, I’d rather make a nice default and make sure things *are* simple and easy to customize (without getting bogged down in details) – it’s way too easy to jump ship over silly details or misunderstanding things like this. I had to talk someone down on IRC the other day from switching desktops, simply because their middle-click browser auto-scroll wasn’t working… they blamed the DE (instead of checking their firefox options).

          • Reply peter Sep 4,2015 19:31

            :-) Not trying to start an Internet Argument either. Thanks for your response. everybody has different tastes, that is great.
            what ever happened to “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”?
            namaste, Peter

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