About Betsy
by clem 62

As I’ve been working on it for the past few weeks I thought I’d bring you some news and information about LMDE 2 aka “Betsy”.

What is LMDE

As you might know, our project maintains two distributions: Linux Mint and LMDE.

If we were to briefly compare Linux Mint and LMDE we’d probably say this:

  • What is similar:
    • They look and work the same, they’re both “Mint”, they provide the same user experience.
    • They meet the same standards and expectations. They’re released and tested the same way.
    • They both ship a MATE and a Cinnamon edition.
  • What is different:
    • Under the hood Linux Mint uses Ubuntu as a package base. LMDE doesn’t. In LMDE the package base is Debian.
    • LMDE is usually a bit leaner, faster and more responsive than Linux Mint.
    • LMDE is simpler in terms of architecture, and usually for the better. This empowers the dev. team on particular projects (the installer, locale management etc..).
    • Linux Mint is more mainstream. It’s easier to find help, documentation or other people who use Linux Mint.
    • Linux Mint benefits from more packages/components. Some aspects of Linux Mint aren’t available in LMDE (as we speak I can think of the Driver Manager for instance, Compiz, PPA repositories..etc).
    • Within our project Linux Mint has a lot more users than LMDE, thus it gets more focus, more resources and it’s better maintained (the move to Debian Stable, in Betsy, should improve this greatly, but it’s still true that resources are allocated on projects with the most demand).

What is Betsy

LMDE was a rolling distribution for a while and eventually turned into a semi-rolling distribution. This was good at the time (among other things it made it possible for LMDE users to enjoy Cinnamon while it was still using a GNOME backend) but it also presented challenges and caused issues. The biggest issue in LMDE was the fact that it required a lot more maintenance than Linux Mint but that it had far less users. This hurt the frequency of updates it received but also the quality of the distribution.. since so much efforts were put in the base, very few LMDE-specific developments were made.

In an effort to boost both development and quality Linux Mint recently switched to LTS bases, thus keeping the same base for 2+ years and iterating releases (17, 17.1, 17.2..etc) which brought desktop innovations and new releases of user applications and desktop environments on top of the very same base. This change was hugely beneficial to Linux Mint and made wonders not only for 17.1 but also for 17 before it.

Similarly, it was decided that LMDE would adopt a frozen release cycle (just like Linux Mint) based on Debian Jessie. This new LMDE was given version “2” and codename “Betsy”. Just like Linux Mint, it will keep the same base for a couple of years until one day we start talking about “LMDE 3”.

Betsy releases

Linux Mint 17.x is a family of releases. Although they share the same base and it’s trivial to upgrade from one to the next, each release brings a distinct set of innovations and new versions of packages. The main advantage of this is that users have the choice to upgrade or to keep the release they’re currently running, it’s an opt-in.

In LMDE 2, we’re considering skipping that. First, it has a cost, and LMDE has a much smaller user base. Second, the LMDE audience is less mainstream and usually more experienced than the one in Linux Mint. For years new versions of software got into Linux Mint first and were then ported to LMDE. We’re thinking of changing that. New software would get into LMDE first and then into Linux Mint. Getting into LMDE would mean updating Betsy, whereas getting into Linux Mint would mean being part of the next 17.x release to come.

In other words, whereas Mint 17.x would see distinct releases (Qiana, Rebecca..etc..) with opt-in upgrade paths, LMDE 2 would be continuously upgraded (it would just be Betsy basically) and simply receive updated ISO images now and then.

In line with what LMDE is to Linux Mint, this would make LMDE a tiny bit more risky than Linux Mint and a tiny bit more exciting for experienced users.


As I said in the previous chapter, we’re “considering” doing that… it’s not set in stone yet. We’ve Romeo and we’re based on Debian Stable.. but the big big thing here is that we’re on the same base for 2+ years: that means quality because it’s worth for us to invest time in tackling way more things and being more demanding than before.

This is the last big thing to iron out for Betsy. A couple of months ago we had very important decisions to make (skipping systemd and keeping sysvinit), and critical issues to fix (upgrade to syslinux 6, initrd compression, multi-hdd installations, gtk 3.14 compatibility). This is all in the past now. We’ve a Betsy which boots and installs like a breeze, no matter how many HDDs you have, whether you’re using EFI or BIOS or which even gets you online if you’re using one of these broadcom wireless chipsets :)

Many bugs were fixed in the system itself, a lot of work was done on the installer (credits to Kernc for his help on this) and the vast majority of what it’s in Mint 17.x is there too.

You can follow the Roadmap to see the remaining issues. As the quality of Betsy is getting higher and higher we’re getting close to QA testing. Of course during QA we’ll probably uncover more bugs so it’s hard to give an estimation for a release at this stage. I’d like to think we’ll see a public release in March, possibly even sooner.. we’ll see. As usual we’ll take our time, and we’ll release when ready.

62 thoughts on “About Betsy

  1. Anand Feb 6,2015 11:31

    Hi Clem, Thanks for an informative article. Also, one thing that has really helped with the decision of 17.x series is almost like we have an updated ISO of LTS release. Earlier, say, if i were to install a LTS release like Maya it would mean that I have to download tons of updates which is an issue for bandwidth conscious citizens like me.

    Now, with Linux experience of ~ 2 years, perhaps i can take an adventure ride with Betsy when it is out. Fingers crossed.

  2. Crewp Feb 6,2015 12:50

    This is such great news, I am a big LMDE fan, and support your move to stable, waiting on systemd, etc. I thought all along that this would make for a better LMDE, which seems to be coming true. Clem and the whole Mint team are awesome! I really believe this new path will make LMDE grow. Keep up the good work.

  3. Fred R Feb 6,2015 13:14

    “Betsy which boots and installs like a breeze”
    Where to download testing isos ?

  4. T_U Feb 6,2015 13:22

    Thanks Clem & the whole team ! All your latest decisions show great maturity and responsibility. I’m very happy about this ! I used to be very favourable to rolling / frequent releases but I’ve also realized it makes it impossible to maintain everything properly and ends up being very frustrating.

    I’m very happy with the LTS decision and the fact you’re back to Debian stable, which providing some backports.

    Keep up the great work ! I’ve been using Linux for a long time, and nowadays, Mint + Cinnamon is really the only distro I can recommend to my non-IT friends even though I can enjoy other distros myself as I can tweak stuff.

  5. peter Feb 6,2015 14:40

    Clem: last month you mentioned that there would be Beta testing for LMDE2. I would love to get in on that!

    • clem Feb 6,2015 16:17

      Hmm… it’s definitely at beta level but I’d be worried people use the Beta to actually use the OS, not just to test it. The reason that worries me, that early, is because we’ve got our hands free right now on the Betsy repositories knowing nobody is (or at least “should be”) using it. Once people are on it we need to be more careful, we need to think of upgrade paths etc etc.

      Of course we could publish an ISO without an installer.. I don’t know, let’s see how things go. We’re quite close already so whichever way we do it, there won’t be long to wait.

      • peter Feb 6,2015 16:36

        thanks… now I see the irony in what I wrote: I use LMDE because I want STABLE! … but a Beta by definition would not be ;-)

        I can wait! and thanks for the reply

      • Jjo Mar 6,2015 14:20

        Your fears are justified. I would totally use it to use the OS. I’m using LMDE now at work, but I’m really annoyed by the Cinnamon crashes several times a week. I’d rather have other kinds of excitement.

        Great to hear a new LMDE is coming. Cant wait to use the new Cinnamon.

        • mtwebster Mar 6,2015 14:58

          Please: https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon/issues

          We can’t fix it if you don’t report it, and there’s a good chance it may have already been reported (and already fixed, pending an update)

          • Jjo Mar 9,2015 15:03

            I guess it would have been the right thing to do to report it. I’ve just had a feeling that no one really cares about LMDE. BUt now I hope things are about to change, so yay.

            I mean, the feeling I’ve had just kinda originates from the fact that the latest Cinnamon available is two versions old. My machines uptime is 266 days (so the installation is at least that old) but in that time it has not received a single mint specific update that I have noticed.

            I have high hopes for the next LMDE release and I’ll try to be more active with the reporting.

  6. fred barclay Feb 6,2015 15:09

    Hi, Clem; great job! I’ve really enjoyed LMDE; as you mention, it’s leaner and faster on my (old) system than Mint 17 and 17.1 were.
    Quick question. You said that Betsy would be continuously upgraded and simply receive updated iso images. Does this mean that I will have to download and install the latest Betsy release to update my system; or can I use apt-get upgrade to update Betsy?

    • clem Feb 6,2015 16:23

      Hi Fred. No, it means that Betsy would receive package updates via APT (apt-get, update manager etc..) for features planned/introduced in the latest 17.x releases.

      For instance, Mint 17 has Cinnamon 2.2, Mint 17.1 has Cinnamon 2.4, Mint 17.2 will have Cinnamon 2.6, Mint 17.3 will have Cinnamon 2.8… etc. On the LMDE side, Betsy has Cinnamon 2.4 at the moment, 2.6 later on, 2.8 later on…

      • fred barclay Feb 6,2015 16:41

        So updating will be as simple as
        apt-get update
        apt-get upgrade

        or using the Update Manager, correct?

        • clem Feb 6,2015 16:51

          Once on Betsy, yes.

          • fred barclay Feb 6,2015 17:03

            Are there plans to be able to install Betsy through LMDE, or will I need to do a fresh install? Or is too early to tell yet?

          • clem Feb 6,2015 17:26

            It’s a bit too early to tell. Once Betsy is finalized we’ll look into an upgrade path.

          • fred barclay Feb 6,2015 19:39

            Alright, thanks for the answer.
            Congrats on a great disto (two of them actually)

            PS–I understand your hesitation on releasing Betsy beta as peter mentioned, but I’d love for there to be a beta release all the same. Perhaps you could place warnings several times in the release notes on the nature of beta releases; and explain that it is still unstable and should not be used as a main release.

            Thanks for your and the team’s work!

          • DD Feb 13,2015 13:45

            If I understand this correctly Betsy will receive (security) updates from the debian repositories by apt?

            I mean for all packages that are not specific to Betsy.

            This necessity to wait for update packs for everything, was, together with the slightly less polished state of LMDE in comparison to Linux Mint, the main aspect putting me a bit off of LMDE 1.

            Thanks for all the work you are providing stable Desktop Linux distros!

  7. jrg Feb 6,2015 15:51

    When is the update for LMDE coming, any deb I try to install doesn’t work, because it’s not up-to-date. When is it finally going to be up-to-date with DEBIAN stable?

    • clem Feb 6,2015 16:24

      The next update for LMDE is the upgrade to Betsy. UP8 is an older snapshot of Jessie and Betsy is based on Jessie current.

  8. KDB Feb 6,2015 17:33

    Hi Clem,

    “New software would get into LMDE first and then into Linux Mint.”

    If you achieve this, then big up! It would be wonderful! And I would love again to invest my time to test things for sure!


    • mockturtl Feb 6,2015 23:18

      +1. I hope it’s possible for betsy to remain somewhat compatible with testing.

      • KDB Feb 7,2015 18:27

        That’s not the objective I think.
        By new software, Clem is speaking about Cinnamon/Nemo/Mint tools…

  9. all41 Feb 6,2015 18:18

    Thank you Mint team, and thank you Clem for this post. There is an extra hd here with Betsy’s name on it.

    • Paul Caskey Feb 27,2015 17:25

      Ditto on that. Great post, Clem. Informative, clean, and sane. Just like Mint! ;)
      Cheers, –Paul

  10. George Feb 6,2015 23:44

    Can you please upgrade some of the major packages like Inkscake, Gimp, Liberoffice. We continually get left behind especially with LibreOffice.


  11. cb474 Feb 7,2015 00:51

    This sounds great. I like all of the ideas you talk about. Really looking forward to Betsy!

  12. Georgi Feb 7,2015 10:27

    This is another wise decision, thumbs up for you, Clem and team! :)

  13. kc1di Feb 7,2015 11:39

    Thank Clem for the explanation and all the hard work, will try Betsy when it arrives :)

  14. messymerry Feb 7,2015 13:06

    Hi Clem, an enormous THANKS to all your group!!! I want to put a bug in your ear:

    I just bought an ASUS X205TA netbook. Sweet little machine. Went to load LMDE+LXDE and no joy. There is no 32 bit EFI bootloader currently available:


    I think it would just be grand if Mint were to front run Ubuntu and create one. Also, I would be able to load LMDE on my new box and all would be well in the universe.

    Thanks again for all you do…

  15. Kirk M Feb 7,2015 17:05

    A couple of months ago we had very important decisions to make (skipping systemd and keeping sysvinit), and critical issues to fix (upgrade to syslinux 6, initrd compression, multi-hdd installations, gtk 3.14 compatibility).

    Would it be possible at this time to elaborate on what you’ve decided to do as far as “systemd vs sysvinit” goes? Which one you’ve decided to use in other words.

    • clem Feb 9,2015 20:28

      Sure. The decision was made to stick to sysvinit.

      • Kirk M Feb 15,2015 18:21

        Ah, thanks for the reply. Heh, I was almost hoping you’d opt for systemd since I wouldn’t have minded working with systemd in a non-Arch set up (I have Manjaro in one of my two test partitions–very interesting). But that’s okay.

        Since Linux Mint/Cinnamon (currently 17.1)is my main OS the plan is to install Betsy (64-bit) into my second test partition and if all goes well, I’ll install the 32 bit version onto my older Lenovo ThinkPad R61 general purpose laptop as long as the 32 bit kernel is PAE enabled that is.

        And thanks for all the hard work you and yours puts into development of the Mint editions and LMDE. It’s pretty amazing how far Linux Mint et al has come since the early days. Mint was my first “go-to” OS when I first got into Linux distros way back then and the one that made me dump Windows for good.

  16. Crewp Feb 8,2015 15:14

    Clem has stated else where that they would not be using systemd this at this time. Allowing it time to develop. But maybe in a couple of years.

  17. nullzero Feb 8,2015 16:55

    Yay great news! Mint is getting better and better and it seems it has its foundations laid up to keep it going for quite a while.

    I’ll start writing my love letter do Betsy for when she’s released.

  18. acrophoenix Feb 9,2015 13:49

    Sorry, I didn’t quite understand: Will LMDE 2 still be rolling or not? Do I ever have to reinstall? Thanks.

    • KDB Feb 9,2015 19:26

      Not rolling as Debian stable is not rolling. This is a frozen base for roughly 2 years. But then you can upgrade without reinstalling. So no reinstallations needed.

  19. Arazal Feb 10,2015 16:53

    I don’t write very well English, I’m Sorry

    I’m a LMDE user and this article very interesting. My computer hasn’t recomended system requirement (only 512 mb ram), but I didn’t run live session of LM17.1 for pae cpu then I tested live session LMDE Mate, it was the most distro linux I tested and instaled in this computer

    The future LMDE is very promising :)

    Thanks Clem and the development team

  20. Thorfin the Cat Feb 13,2015 21:25

    How about a Linux Mint Slackware Edition? :D LMSE? Any takers?? Anybody?

    Alright fine I’ll do it myself.

  21. Coranth Feb 15,2015 05:09

    Whenever I refurbish a Computer at the Buderim Recycling Market (where I work as a Volunteer), Mint is one of my ‘go-to’ distros due to it being so easy to get on a system and the fact that it’s ‘all there’; you just install it and it’s all there; the OS, software, etc. Recently, I set up one of the machines I fixed (with Mint on it!) to play an Endeavor Foundation Promo DVD.

    1. Boot Minty Fresh System.

    2. Insert DVD.

    3. VLC loads disc.

    So simple. So easy! Mint and PCLinuxOS are my go-to Linuxes when fixing up the old machines. I love ’em!

  22. David N Feb 18,2015 02:39

    Very excited for this! LMDE is my perfect and ideal distro, with
    cinnamon (the best DE) on Debian (the best linux base), however, the LMDE was (understandably) a disappointment, with tons of bugs and very few updates. I have faith in this new model, and am very happy to see work started on the project again. Can’t wait to test it when the QA comes out, and to use it as my main OS when the stable image is released!

  23. Jonathan Feb 19,2015 01:16

    Great news for me!!! I have LMDE as my main OS. I’m so excited with the Betsy release. I hope it will happen soon

  24. Zsolt Feb 20,2015 13:25

    Will the new LMDE installer have LUKS+LVM?

  25. Arazal Feb 24,2015 16:47

    I only have seen a 64 bits version of LMDE2 in the Community Testing Zone. Will Betsy publish only in 64 bits? This is a pity, my computer is the 32 bits Thanks Clem

    • clem Mar 9,2015 16:11

      Oh no. It will be available for 32bit as well. You might have seen only MATE 64-bit in the QA lately, that’s because we’re fixing critical bugs which are common to both architectures (and DEs), so re-rolling one ISO instead of 4 after we fix bugs is easier and faster for us. Before we release though, we’ll QA all 4 ISOs (32/64 and cinnamon/mate).

  26. Muzencab Mar 1,2015 00:51

    Any thoughts of including ndiswrapper?

  27. Vincent M Mar 2,2015 18:10

    Hi All,just want to say thanks for the best OS ,LMDE.
    i can’t wait for LMDE 2.
    keep up the amazing work.

    Vince M

  28. Jeremy Boden Mar 10,2015 13:37

    Will the update to new-LMDE be done via an iso, or will it require a major download?

    BTW I really like the latest Mint nemo version – is it possible to safely apply the Mint nemo to the current version LMDE?

    • Monsta Mar 17,2015 04:48

      1. The upgrade path will be handled later. New ISOs come first. :)

      2. Starting from version 2.2, Cinnamon/Nemo/Muffin/etc. require GTK+ >= 3.10. Current LMDE has only 3.8, so the answer is no.

  29. netix Mar 17,2015 14:28

    Hallo Clem,
    a big, big Thank to you and the whole team. I have tried many distros, but lmde is the best. I work with it for more than a year without problems,
    Thx a lot

  30. Steve Mar 19,2015 20:21

    LMDE 2 RC, I have installed it 5 times because everytime I install the nvidia driver/drivers, it locks up on reboot. Any thoughts?

  31. OS2-User May 1,2015 19:54

    Having just tried the Debian 8 Jessie 32b Mate LiveDVD, it is a difference like deepest night to high-noon, when compared to the usability and features of your very polished LMDE2.
    Jessie Mate Live is barren and pretty much useless: no gparted or comparable (if one doesn’t already know about the existence of parted, one is screwed), no Character Map, no convenient ‘open as administrator’ in Caja, no H/W-Sensors-Monitor as Panel add-on (well, that one is missing in LMDE, too), nothing to set the time zone in the Control Center and a few other absentees, no media player whatsoever, the Desktop install icon claims Sid rather than Jessie, etc.
    But even worse, “Direct firmware load failed with error -2” by the interface driver rt2800usb for the widely popular Ralink RT2870 and RT3072 based USB .11n WiFi 2×2 adapters, keeping the syslogd busy and hence my poor CPU running hot at close to a 100% load. Something appearing very similar to a regression in Ubuntu and derivatives, including Mint some 5 years ago. Back then it took 3 following releases to finally fix that regression again. If this current problem would actually be that old bug, then it really would be an embarrassement for Debian. If it is a new one, it still is a major oversight.
    Jessie Live also suffers from Suspend not working here, the monitor turns black, the system keeps going/freezing, to never respond again, until drastic measures are applied. Something that works just beautifully lately for me with your Ubuntu and Debian based Mints.

    However, Jessie for me now has one imeasurable advantage over LMDE(-2), something I strongly urge you to please investigate further.
    Like in the good old days of some 4 years back (before LM-11), I do not need to provide ‘radeon.modeset=0’ as kernel boot parameter for Jessie’s 586, nor the 686-pae kernel, to prevent a fatal freeze-up on my Radeon 9600 (RV350) or Radeon X800 (R420), when the GUI is supposed to take over.
    Having to rely on ‘radeon.modeset=0’ in turn results in a very high CPU load for motion graphics output. The simple line graphics of the System Monitor’s Resources tab already causes the CPU to run at 49% to 51%. Normal and, as with Jessie as well, would be around 15%. Trying to play a video in Totem, VLC or Banshee is pointless, the CPU hangs at 100% load and frames are being updated, if at all, only every few seconds (see attched screenshot). Normal would be a CPU load of some 40-45% when playing a standard resolution mp4 file, which I also expect to be possible with Jessie, if installed and with VLC added.
    And with LMDE2 for the first time in some 4 years, I now need to use ‘radeon.modeset=0’ on my old laptop with Radeon IGP320M (RS100). Using that parameter before only was proof, that this was actually what caused my very high CPU loads in connection with more than rather static graphic output.
    Sadly, instead of the promised progress, Linux for me lately only brings me severe regressions, now close to utter uselesness. XUbuntu 15.04 now, right after initialising cups, even goes here right to sleep, rather than completing the boot cycle. Go figure.

    With Jessie showing that things can still work on my hardware as they used to some time ago and LMDE2 being based on Jessie, the question now is, where does Mint do what exactly different from Jessie, that breaks the normal operation of said Radeon GPUs?

    I also find, being able to choose which kernel (586 or 686-pae) to boot, is a nice touch in Jessie and maybe possible to add in future Mint releases.
    So please, Clem, bring Mint to the same functionality as Jessie in respect to Radeon GPUs, since the side effects of having to use ‘radeon.modeset=0’ here are intolerable.

  32. Apollo Jun 9,2015 21:17

    Hallo Clem,

    a lot of compliments on the work done by you and your team,

    LMDE has so far been the preferred distribution from my working group
    (Volunteer group that recovers pc abandoned by companies and individuals for giving them to people in difficulty){to the exclusion of older Pentium II and III where we used ConnochaetOS or a minimal version of Debian}
    because robust, stable and rolling / semi-rolling and based on Debian that we know well.

    But I can’t well understand (thanks to my poor english) …

    LMDE2 is a rolling-release?

    Many of the PCs we donated have installed LMDE (1)
    and we do not know how to proceed … the repository does not ask us to update / upgrade to LMDE2, and continue to get updates for Firefox, Thunderbird, Wine, etc …

    Changing the repository on the PC that we had in place, as in the online help (community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2013), we have several broken things, MDM changed, plymouth not working, compiz literally exploded (also trying to compile from source… ok compiz was for our pleasure) …

    At the moment we are installing directly LMDE2, but we are concerned to see us having to fix several PCs in the near future.

    You or your team can advise on what to do?
    If the answer is too long it would be fine by mail.

    Thanks so much for availability always shown by the comunity and in the engagement in your work.

    P.S. Probably is a question that many do, but it would be possible to find in the repository LMDE Compiz and Emerald already packaged? I remember that on the Iso of UpdatePack 6 with Mate was present Compiz.

  33. stanley82 Jul 1,2015 01:50

    Hi all, I’ve put Betsy on a flash stick and it looks good. I tried to put it on my hard disk that already has mint17.1 and gave up on the partitioning. I’ve a good handle on partitioning only I need to know what I should end up with to install Betsy. It seems i need a mount point / plus a /boot/efi err like how big should I make these partitions plus a swap. There is no MS stuff on the disk. Ian.

  34. Lehel Jul 11,2015 05:38

    LMDE2 MATE for the win! :) I’m using it on a 13″ toshiba and its great! After full charge it shows 8 hours of battery time remaining :D

  35. Jan Thailand Oct 17,2015 03:40

    Dear Clem & Team, congratulations for fantastic job, I use Linux since 4 years now, installed Linux Mint Olivia on old 266 PC, works fine, before I used Debian on this old machine.
    On my 2 notebooks, 1 old Pavillion DV6000 and new Lenovo 510 I had installed Linux Mint 17.2, both worked perfect, I have multi boot on the Leonovo with Windows 8 upgraded to Windows 10 what a crap….I regret I bought the original software but I said farewell to Windows, I only use Windows to make FAT partition on external disk or so, my main OS is LMDE-2, lately I was interested in Debian 8.2.2 but according to my personal opinion….I do prefer the LMDE-2 version as I really like the simplicity from Cinnamon, also the “look” the design is more nice, it just looks great the desktop, and is more easy to understand than Debian 8, I feel more comfortable with LMDE comparing Debian 8 , just 1 question left….I succeeded to install my NVIDIA card on the old Pavillion, the NVIDIA card is GeForce 8400M GS, on the Lenovo I have the NVIDIA GeForce GT740M but it seems the current Kernel does not support this, I tried to install following the wiki Debian Betsy/Jessie but failed. I am not in a hurry, I know NVIDIA does not support Linux that well, I think the problem is the kernel, please correct me if I am wrong, is there any chance in future the latest Kernel will be updated with driver 355.11 for example ? Any information appreciated. Greetings from a Dutchie in Thailand, excuse me if I do not pass enough info about my system, I am still learning Linux and enjoy ! Keep up the great job Clem and team, big respect for you guys !

  36. edwardf5000 Jan 25,2016 01:09

    Just chiming in here…would appreciate if other drivers would be incorporated in with packages such as for canon printers which is greatly lacking availability. Thanks for all the great work!!

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